Philippa of Hainault and the Black Prince

Interesting. However I have *never* heard of Phillipa being referred to as the "Black Queen", and Edward was not called the "Black Prince" during his lifetime. The nickname seems to have been coined about a generation before Shakespeare (some 150 years after Edward's death), and no one seems to know quite where it came from. Popular theories have been that it referred to his wearing black armor or bearing a shield with a black background, or from his ruthlessness in war.

There is some doubt as to the historicity of Qirwerne, but even if she really existed and really had the husband(s) and child(ren) attributed to her, Philippa would have been "black" only by the reckoning of the most rabid US racists. (I mean, 1/256th? Get real!)

I had never heard of the Ethiopian Emperors in Philippa's bloodline. I think it's very interesting how broad her ancestry was. We live in a racist world but back then, the Sons and Daughters of the Kings and Queens of many different countries were well traveled and married foreigners from far away for the purpose of peace, alliance and maybe diversity of the gene pool. They thought nothing of marrying outside ones race, culture or skin color so long as the pedigree was impeccable. In this, they were far more progressive than we are today for they took all the worlds best leaders of all the countries they had connections with and the Children of those unions were multi-ethnic and diverse.

The term 'black" has been used many times and has many different meanings. Sometimes it refers to a black soul or heart, sometimes a person with dark skin and sometimes it described a part of ones shield.

This is a common description and concept of Philippa and she and Edwards son "The Black Prince" http://www.100greatblackbritons.com/bios/queen_phillipa.html

Do you disagree with it?

From http://www.historyextra.com/qa/why-was-black-prince-called-‘black’

He was named after his birthplace. The sobriquet ‘Black Prince’ does not appear in written records until the 16th century, nearly two centuries after his death, though as a nickname it may date back to his lifetime.

The origin of the term is just as obscure as the date it was first used. It may stem from Edward’s habit, when jousting, of putting aside his royal coat of arms in favour of a black ‘shield for peace’ decorated with three white ostrich feathers.

Some historians believe he also wore black armour, while others have suggested that the name may have been derived from the French habit of referring to a particularly brutal commander as a ‘black boar’.

In truth, we do not know for certain.

He was named after his birthplace. The sobriquet ‘Black Prince’ does not appear in written records until the 16th century, nearly two centuries after his death, though as a nickname it may date back to his lifetime.

Now that it's *popular* to be black, everybody is reaching for anyone they can claim has black ancestors, no matter how far back. (If you go back more than 30-50,000 years, we ALL do.)

Same thing with Native Americans, same with LGBT, same with any once-despised minority group that's now "in" to belong to.

Wonder when people will start bragging on their Neanderthal ancestry - that's at least as common as descent from Charlemagne.... :-D

Thank you for Erica for that wonderful piece of important historical information. Timing is so important when trying to figure out a meaning.

Maven, my mission is not one of looking for popularity etc. but simple historical fact and interest in the activities of and customs of people of that time period.

If you could put yourself in their shoes can you imagine going forward with marrying a person from a different Country, Race and Culture with whom you only share an acceptable pedigree or political alliance? Imagine how many personal concessions and personal sacrifices they must have made to keep the peace between Countries? To avoid war and form alliances they sacrificed all personal desires. They may not have even known each other's languages. Could you do it?

" Here is the path from Philippa to Ethiopian Emperors: "
The Ethiopian emperors were Christians, the people also, still today there would be almost 40 millions christians in Ethiopia, + Eritrea, and if you belonged to the rulers you were certainly almost well educated, so the prince/sses that later married with other rulers in other countries may already have spoken their language, and if not, it only took some months to learn.

I suspect Anna Yaroslavna had a harder time of it when she married Henri I of France. They wouldn't have had a language, or even an *alphabet*, in common - he spoke Old French and *maybe* Latin, and was illiterate in both; she spoke Old Slavonic and Greek (possibly also Old Norse, due to her mother being Swedish), and was literate in at least the first. And already the Eastern Rite differed so much from the Roman rite that an irreparable breach was imminent.

That's a very nice correlation Maven. :) I think you have an excellent grasp of the historical implications and seem to know a lot more about these things than other people. Did you major in History?

Ulf, do have an example of the education system?

When I followed Philippa's line from Mara to her Marriage to Edward III, I saw her Ancestors went from Ethiopia to Turkey, then from Turkey to Hungary. (most people are aware of Philippa's hungarian roots). From Hungary the line then goes to France then to England.

When you look at Philippa's Father's line, it goes through a long line of French,Norwegian and possibly Finnish Ancestors. (I chose Fornjot because he is the oldest Norwegian Finnish Ancestor of hers I could think of). http://www.geni.com/path/Philippa-of-Hainault-Queen-consort-of-Engl...
I'm pretty sure she has a Swedish line somewhere, but I'm not quite sure which Ancestor of hers to choose to find it.

Be the time Philippa is born in 1314; she is Ethiopian, Turkish, Hungarian, French, Norwegian and Finnish at a minimum.
While they refer to her as one of Briton's Black Queens, in reality, her Ethiopian Ancestor's were only one small part of her heritage, as you say Maven.

The more fascinating part is the travels through different countries, cultures and the custom of marrying the royals of one country to the royals of another country. Over a long period of time, you end up with a very ethnically diverse person whom you hope holds the best characteristics of all the rulers in the world at that times, as well as being able to learn so many languages, customs and adapt to so many cultures.

In your opinion, which Historical King or Queen has/had the most diverse heritage? Do you think they refer to these ethnic trees today when they do business today and say things like "Mara is our common ancestor, so we are family and as members of the same family we should get along"?

"I suspect Anna Yaroslavna had a harder time of it when she married Henri I of France. They wouldn't have had a language, or even an *alphabet*, in common - he spoke Old French and *maybe* Latin, and was illiterate in both; she spoke Old Slavonic and Greek (possibly also Old Norse, due to her mother being Swedish), and was literate in at least the first. And already the Eastern Rite differed so much from the Roman rite that an irreparable breach was imminent."

Ever heard of interpreters?

"Ulf, do have an example of the education system?"

It would have been similar to the most educational system concerning the royal class developed hand in hand with Christianity since 300 AD, with minor differences to what was expected that women should coupe.

Studies in language, reading, writing, poetry, sewing, embroidery, in some cases, the art of making poisons!, politics, history, and all the rest of things that meant something to them or were important to learn in that time. It's easy to be a victim of preconceptions based on comparing current images with the view of people in Africa as poor, uneducated, illiterate that are living in mud huts or refugee camps. When we see modern city's in Africa, it's likely that we take for granted that it's because of us that they have that, forgetting that in ancient time they had high cultures long before Europe, that actually survived a lot longer than the most others.

Take the old wellknown Egyptian pharaoh cult as an example compared with the great ignorance of the majority of its closest peripheral neighboring states lying in and under their shadow, which, in many aspects ought to have been outstanding back then, to think otherwise would be just silly.

In those countries there would have been a class society with noble, taxpayers vassals, serfs and craftsman influenced by the ruling classes system in these regions spanning from India to Africa right across the middle east under a couple of thousand years before and long after the ending of the Roman Empire.

Finding books on this topic are maybe not the easiest thing to do, but maybe these two books could provide some light, but you probably need to do a visit to a library to read them, and no, I can not give you any specific sources on knowledge that has come to me through various channels over the years.

Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity
By Otto Friedrich August Meinardus

Ethiopia, the Unknown Land: A Cultural and Historical Guide
By Stuart Munro-Hay

Bravo Ulf, nice job! :) I am impressed, and the two books you recommend sound very interesting.

Thank you cousin Ulf and Cousin Maven ;)

I found this interesting link about African Royal Families on the internet. https://theafricanroyalfamilies.com/

Private User https://www.geni.com/path/Mara-Takla-Haymanot-Negus-of-Ethiopia+is+... shows inlaws

Philippa of Hainault was not of Ethiopian descent. Her 6th great-grandfather was Andronikos Doukas Kamateros, Duke of the Byzantine Empire. He was born in 1108 in Constantinople. He had two wives. One was Theodora Kalusine Kantakouzene who was also born in Constantinople/Istanbul and the other was Qirwerne, Princess of Ethopia. Philippa of Hainault is a descendant of Theodora, NOT Qirwerne. ,